Author Topic: WiFi repeater  (Read 10230 times)

CoolBreeze

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Re: WiFi repeater
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2012, 09:27:31 am »
2.4 or 5.8 still probably doesn't matter much. They decay rapidly and  you know this from seeing how your cell phone works differently between the winter in summer due to how the leaves on trees effect these signals but 2.4 and 5.8 are even more susceptable to those losses.

Watching Videos is called a Guaranteed Bit Rate (GBR) service where as clicking a mouse and surfing the internet is called a Best Effort (BE) service. To watch the movie you have to have that guaranteed bit rate so it doesn't stop and start as we have all seen with a Youtube video on our computers.  Essentially that requires bandwidth and more importantly a huge Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR) over the RF channel to guarantee that high rate bandwidth.

The SNR requirement for high speed data for OFDM TDD technologies (WiFi) is probably 20 dB+ which is the requirement for 64QAM . So your Yagi's gain and power better beat that number ( 20 dB+) but there is a catch. If you have more people on that channel you have more noise and you have to raise your signal by the 20 dB + the noise those people are adding to the channel. Then you pile on the poor performance of the 2.4 or 5.8 frequency band. That is all then saying that the internet isn't clogged or the server you gaining access to isn't clogged or has poor latency. Even the repeater adds latency because unlike an analog repeater a digital repeater is reconstrucing the bit stream. An analog repeater adds noise and reduces the range therefore the tradeoff is latency vs. range.

You can provide some amount of BE for a few people. First person who hits a GBR service is likely to kill the RF channel and you will all loose your IP addresses and have to re-initialize. This is how "mobile data" works.

Essentially Cisco and all these Router company Wannabe's are trying to gain revenues in the wireless world. They want to sell you something but there is no way (via physics) that it will work as you might think it will. 

I have what is called IPTV at my house and we use it to watch international TV shows. That TV is 15' from the router indoors. TV show goes on and you can only use Best Effort services like simple internet surfing and at that the latency is way high meaning your waiting for your web pages to load. There is also no guarantee that that TV program won't be interrupted by a raise in the thousand or so routers it may cross due to congestion.

Offline clarkely

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Re: WiFi repeater
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2012, 09:40:54 am »
For just doing movies - I would suggest getting a divx or the like and then you can download before you go and play it on anything..........and not be at the mercy of the campgrounds over congested connection, or poor service that they are paying for..........

ANd if i can't go with out service for work - then a mifi card
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Offline chilipyro

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Re: WiFi repeater
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2012, 07:24:35 pm »
I definitely agree on the advantages of ripping movies to disk and bringing a player that reads those disks. I started doing that with our DVDs a while back - growing tired of the mountain of DVDs left out of their cases, getting scratched etc. I have them all on a couple of USB hard drives (one for family movies and one for mom & dad movies). That's how we watch them at home, and they come with us on trips too.

Coolbreeze - I agree with everything you say - in theory. In practice, being able to repeat the outside WiFi signal (at outside strength) inside the camper has improved the quality of the signal a good deal. At at least one camground, we had a fantastic signal and were able to watch streaming Netflix at high quality. The campground was small, and lightly attended. I definitely agree that a packed camground with lots of people trying to use that same internet connection, the experience would have been less than satisfactory. I suppose that it depends somewhat on the device you use to receive Netflix (I use a Roku 2), but I have found Netflix to be very adaptable to a variable quality in network connection. If the network is choppy, the signal is buffered more to deal with the starts and stops so that interruptions are less. If the network is too slow, Netflix detects that and drops the bitrate (i.e., quality). While I was pretty impressed at being able to watch streaming Netflix in the trailer with such good quality, from a campground WiFi, on that one trip, it would be foolish to think that this was a reasonable goal to expect for more than a handful of campgrounds we might stay. My primary need is being able to do mostly low bandwidth stuff - browsing, searching, email, forum posts, etc. I'm usually doing that late at night, after DW and the kids have turned in. The kids like to have internet access for their ipods and handheld game players - so it is nice to have a wifi network inside the trailer. Before I had the WiFi antenna set up, the kids were always bugging me to turn on my cellphone WiFi hotspot. I didn't mind that at first, until I set them up with netflix on their ipods - after which they proceeded to burn through my 5Gb monthly hotspot limit in just four days.
2009 Jayco G2 32BHDS
2012 F350 King Ranch 4x4 Dually Longbed 6.7L Turbo Diesel (5990lbs payload - yeah baby!!),
Reese Dual Cam Hitch, Honda 2000 gens x2
Me, DW, DS (14), DS (12), DD (10), and our two little dogs


Offline Willingtonpaul

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Re: WiFi repeater
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2012, 08:06:27 pm »
This sounds like a very good idea, but I have no idea what half of the words you are using mean. But it does sound cool.

So my question is, what do I need to bring to Charlie Brown so you tech savvy New Englanders can hook me up??? ::)

Jim

knowing tom, beer and bourbon.   ;)

PM me and i will give you all relevant brands and the proper dosages to give him as he works......

« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 08:10:38 pm by Willingtonpaul »
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CoolBreeze

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Re: WiFi repeater
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2012, 11:15:33 pm »
Chillypro,

I was adressing the "greater problem" here of thinking that anybody was going to light up the campground. I have no doubt it worked for your exceptional case but that is purely what it is. Not theory actually but fact.

 With everybody having a 4G phone in the next 3 to 5 years and what I discussed before, repeaters will be replaced and the companies who make repeaters will be out of business.

Google these 3 words  LightRadio, Bloomberg, Sprint and read the first article that pops up on the page.

Offline chilipyro

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Re: WiFi repeater
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2012, 10:52:12 pm »
Replaced by what - the hotpot on my smartphone?

My 3G phone is more than fast enough for my smartphone needs. The hotspot that comes with my 3G phone is already fast enough for most of my hotspot needs. The problem with 3G (or 4G) is the data cap, and the fact that the hotspot costs me money on top of my data plan. Now, if you could tell me that this 3-5 year timeline was for availability of 4G at my remote campground, no data cap, and free hotspot use (with no data cap) - I'd leave my WiFi repeater home for sure. Otherwise, I think I will stick with my free campground WiFi, and keep looking for ways to take better advantage of that.
2009 Jayco G2 32BHDS
2012 F350 King Ranch 4x4 Dually Longbed 6.7L Turbo Diesel (5990lbs payload - yeah baby!!),
Reese Dual Cam Hitch, Honda 2000 gens x2
Me, DW, DS (14), DS (12), DD (10), and our two little dogs


H2oSprayer

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Re: WiFi repeater
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2012, 08:08:43 am »
Kind of funny that I came across this thread as I am planning on flashing an old Linksys 54g that I have laying around with the WW-DRT firmware for the sole purpose of using it as a repeater at the campgrounds within the next few days.  Any tips or hints?

Offline chilipyro

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Re: WiFi repeater
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2012, 11:10:16 am »
Kind of funny that I came across this thread as I am planning on flashing an old Linksys 54g that I have laying around with the WW-DRT firmware for the sole purpose of using it as a repeater at the campgrounds within the next few days.  Any tips or hints?
Is your purpose to just create a private LAN from the camground WiFi, or are you trying to increase the strength of the signal inside your camper. If the latter, you will also need a wifi anttena cable and a wifi antenna that you can mount outside the camper.  If you have a good enough signal inside the camper, and just want a private LAN, you can get a way without the external antenna.

I have not tried flashing and configuring from default settings yet, so I don't know which settings on mine differ from the default. But, I can send you screen captures of the way that mine is set up.
2009 Jayco G2 32BHDS
2012 F350 King Ranch 4x4 Dually Longbed 6.7L Turbo Diesel (5990lbs payload - yeah baby!!),
Reese Dual Cam Hitch, Honda 2000 gens x2
Me, DW, DS (14), DS (12), DD (10), and our two little dogs


n7oq

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Re: WiFi repeater
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2012, 11:28:20 am »
Well we are now camping with 2 other Outbacker families right now and the repeater it working great. The router can connect to the free campground wifi that our computers can't other wise see by their self. This is really helpful for the Ipads, I phones and Droids that have even smaller less gain antennas.

If you plan on using a external antenna with a router keep the coax as short as possible because at 2.4 ghz and above  the coax losses are very high and you can easily have more losses than the antenna has gain. I plan on putting the router in a water tight box and have less than 2 feet of coax.

Anyway this setup works great without it I would have to walk to the  campground store to get on the internet but now I can sit in my trailer and cruse the web.

OK now for some fishing!

Offline joonbee

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Re: WiFi repeater
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2012, 11:30:02 am »
knowing tom, beer and bourbon.   ;)

PM me and i will give you all relevant brands and the proper dosages to give him as he works......

Check and check  ;)  Thanks fir the grocery list Paul

Jim, Kristen, James and Aaron
Sierra and Merlin (Border Collies)

H2oSprayer

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Re: WiFi repeater
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2012, 03:10:20 pm »
Is your purpose to just create a private LAN from the camground WiFi, or are you trying to increase the strength of the signal inside your camper. If the latter, you will also need a wifi anttena cable and a wifi antenna that you can mount outside the camper.  If you have a good enough signal inside the camper, and just want a private LAN, you can get a way without the external antenna.

I have not tried flashing and configuring from default settings yet, so I don't know which settings on mine differ from the default. But, I can send you screen captures of the way that mine is set up.

My long term goal would be to add an external antenna, pull in the weak campground signal and rebroadcast it.  I'm not sure if I can, but I would rather be able to rebroadcast the signal with some sort of security enabled so that not every Tom, Dick and Harry can have access.

More of a short term goal was to get the firmware flashed; which it looks like I have just been able to successfully do.  Now it is just a matter of fumbling through the settings to learn the firmware and try to get it set as I want it.   

Should I be able to get it set like I would like, I plan to purchase an external antenna and mount it to the top of the top of the television antenna.  That way, when I raise and lower the television antenna, the WiFi antenna will also raise and lower.

Offline chilipyro

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Re: WiFi repeater
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2012, 07:18:58 pm »
Should I be able to get it set like I would like, I plan to purchase an external antenna and mount it to the top of the top of the television antenna.  That way, when I raise and lower the television antenna, the WiFi antenna will also raise and lower.

That is exactly where I am now. My repeater works fine (it was fine out of the box). I have an external WiFi antenna. I got as far as running the antenna cable from the entertainment center through the ceiling and out the roof exit for the TV antenna (accomplishing that was a royal PITA). Now I am trying to figure out how to mount the WiFi antenna on that same assembly, so that I can leave it up there all the time. That solution has eluded me so far, but as soon as I figure it out, I will post the details.

Without the external antenna, you might be able to get the signal boost by parking the repeater along a window, facing the WiFi source. Before I had the repeater, I used a USB WiFi adaptor and would park that next to the window to get the best signal.
2009 Jayco G2 32BHDS
2012 F350 King Ranch 4x4 Dually Longbed 6.7L Turbo Diesel (5990lbs payload - yeah baby!!),
Reese Dual Cam Hitch, Honda 2000 gens x2
Me, DW, DS (14), DS (12), DD (10), and our two little dogs


H2oSprayer

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Re: WiFi repeater
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2012, 09:55:07 pm »
That is exactly where I am now.

Hoping that I am in the ball park on the settings, is this where you have your settings? --> http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Repeater_Bridge

n7oq

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Re: WiFi repeater
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2012, 03:42:00 am »
Hoping that I am in the ball park on the settings, is this where you have your settings? --> http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Repeater_Bridge

I run repeater mode not repeater bridge, that way all wireless devices can use it. In bridge mode you have to be connected to the router with a cat5 cable. And yes you can turn on WAP encoding so you can keep others off the system.  Just make you setup WAP in the virtual wireless area and not in the main wireless area that connects to the campground wifi router. 

n7oq

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Re: WiFi repeater
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2012, 03:46:16 am »
My future plans is to put the router in a water tight electrical box and install antenna and power connections to the outside what way I can put it outside and on top of the trailer and not worry about the weather. This weekend it has been a life saver we have used the heck out of it and it is so nice to sit here in the camper and have good fast internet connections.

 

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